“If players were as sensitive in my era as they are now, it would have been a fight every quarter”
In terms of this upcoming season, with New Jersey upgrading with the acquisition of Magloire at the center position, and with the Celtics getting KG and Allen, how do you see Toronto fitting into that Atlantic Division? Do you believe we were riding luck last year, or you think we can hold off these emerging teams and retain our Atlantic Division title?
I think Toronto will be improved as well. They learned a valuable experience last year. They should have beaten the Nets and just that thought should have had each of those players in the gym all summer working hard. The key will be Bosh and staying away from the injuries to key players that affected them last year. Morris Peterson’s defection to the Hornets will hurt, but the Raptors are talented enough to make a serious run at duplicating what they did last year although the competition has definitely gotten better.
How will the effect of playing for Team USA, or their respective countries, be on each of the players bodies? How much wear and tear will be done by participating in these games? Last year for the World Baseball Classic, a lot of those players saw a decrease in their performance and a physical decline towards the end of the season.
I think it does wear on you to an extent, but it all goes back to how you take care of your body. I think it will only affect the older players like Jason Kidd and Chauncey Billups, but then again they did not play many minutes. I really liked how the players minutes were limited. So I don’t think it will be much of a factor during the season. LeBron is the only player that should be a little winded since his season lasted longer than any other player.
Eddie, I miss the good old days of the NBA, the days when you played and the game was physical. How do you feel when you see a hard foul in an NBA game and the player is ejected or even suspended, when if that happened back when you played, you just got two free throws and that was that? How many points a game do you think you would of scored if no one was allowed to touch you or give you a “Charles Oakley” clothesline when going into the lane?
You have gotten me so worked up now. People ask me all the time about the way the game has changed. I honestly felt it was needed, because players were becoming too sensitive. That might be the one major problem I have with players today… Why so sensitive? During my era everything was fair game including momma jokes. I tell you what, if players were as sensitive in my era as they are now, it would have been a fight every quarter. We had running dialogue all the time during the course of a game. I would have two or three trash talking conversations going on with different players all the time. The difference for us was that we did not take it personally and we used it as motivation to play even harder. Here is an example of players that I would have confrontations with every time I played them…
Xavier McDaniel and I hated each other on the court. I would be shooting and calling him a bald headed so and so at the same time he would come back and try and crack me with an elbow and then proceed to try and tear the rim down. It was vicious, but not one time did we have a fight and believe it or not we shared a drink and laughed about it during an NBA cruise during the offseason.
Larry Bird called me every name in the book when we played and I tried to reciprocate as much as I could and maintain some energy to guard him. The first time I guarded him in my career at Boston Garden he looked at me and said I am going to kick your @#$% and even during a game later in the season I popped him in the mouth with an elbow and laughed because they called a foul on him as well. He never lost his concentration and only waited till after the game to come in the locker room and drop his room key on my lap and said, “Let’s finish this at my hotel.” I reminded him of that years later and he laughed.
Lonnie Shelton was probably the quickest 6-8, 260 player I have ever seen and I hated him to guard me. He would throw me all around the court, but one night I got tired of it and I started talking about everyone in his generation to take his attention off the game. Nothing seemed to bother him till I came by the Cavalier bench and called him a fat @#$% in front of his teammates and they started laughing and he stared at me no matter where I was on the court till it really started to bother me. When he got in the game, he had nothing on his mind other than hurting me. I finally went up to him during a free throw and apologized and he said, “Cool, let’s play.” True story.
Tom Chambers and Frank Brickowski, I will mention them together because I use to get under their skin big time when they played for the Sonics. I would talk so much smack that both of them would take turns trying to pop me, but I was not stupid. I always took care of the wide bodies on my team and LaSalle Thompson and Mark Olberding would always be there to protect me. What’s so funny about those two is that in later years we would become teammates (Chambers-Suns and Brickowski-Hornets) and I consider both very good friends. They understood the method to my madness when we played together and they looked out for me as well.
Believe me, if guys were as sensitive then as they are now the league would have been out of control and David Stern would not have had one chance of turning the NBA around financially like he has done.
The only thing I will say about the defensive rule of not touching a player when he catches the ball and faces his defender is this, I would have scored at least 8 to 10 more points a game in my career. That would have put me at about 27 a game. So now what do you think Jordan would have averaged? Think about this, Jordan catches the ball 15 feet from the basket and he is allowed to turn and face the defender without the defender being able to touch him, are you kidding me. End of story!
Since you are Mr. Jumpshot, I would like to ask you about the NBA and “sidewinder” releases. Like Larry Bird and Chris Mullin, O do not square up to the basket; rather I turn about 40 to 45 degrees to the left. I think it gives a player the best chance to make the jumpshot a one-handed shot. Can I have your opinion on this release?
Hold up, you just gave me a headache. I only have an opinion about one thing when it comes to shooting and that is what’s the result? Bird, Mullin, Miller, Redd and Stojakovic were and are not text book shooters. Who cares? They have and had a great result. When I teach players, I try and work within their mechanics and go from there. I think anyone can become a very good shooter with proper understanding of why the ball has the best chance to go in. I will give no more of my secrets unless you pay or go to my website and purchase the best shooting DVD on the market!
How will Memphis Grizzlies do for the PG position with four guards (Tarence Kinsey, Damon Stoudamire, Juan Carlos Navarro and Mike Conley)?
I have no idea how they will do if Marc Iavaroni just hands the point guard duties to Conley. I do think they will have some stability if he allows Stoudamire to run the team and allow the youngsters to move slowly. The one thing Iavaroni does not want to do is alienate his scorers because he is force feeding young point guards and they are struggling to get the scorers the ball efficiently. The Grizzlies have talent, but it remains to be seen if they can develop heart and toughness to get back to the 50-win plateau again.
Am I the only one that is a little concerned about how Kevin Durant will hold up for the season? He is really good but you have to wonder, how will his skinny frame hold up over the 82-game season? As a catch-and-shoot player ( i.e. Reggie Miller) he would be OK. But let’s be real, he wasn’t drafted to be a catch-and-shoot player.
You just answered your own question. If you remember Reggie Miller early in his career, he drove the lane consistently and gave up his body and played 18 years. The offensive players in today’s game are protected and because of it Durant will be fine. He is an extremely committed young man and will get stronger and better as the season goes along.
I’ve been following the Bobcats since their inception. They appear to have done things the right way – building through the draft. They seem to have many talented players, but it can be hard to tell because so many players are young and many others have been injured. How does a team like this reach the next level? How does management or a coach decide what players are the nucleus of the team, and which ones are not (I remember Charles Barkley saying once that every NBA player is good enough to play). The next two years seem crucial to the Bobcats. What needs to happen for them to be successful?
Hopefully, Michael Jordan is allowing everyone to have a hand on decisions, which I am sure he is this time around. Luck plays a lot with getting to the next level. Assembling a team is extremely difficult because mixture can either enhance or destroy. If you look back at history, great teams have started with either the center position or the point guard position. Well, the Bobcats have neither. Yes, they can improve and win. But if they are to get out of the Eastern Conference it will have to be with the formula I just described. Emeka Okafor is not the answer at center and Raymond Felton is a stretch at the point position. Bottom line, the Bobcats need to find a way to convince some big time free agents to get on board in the next few years or they will just be termed a team that competes but comes up short.
Did you listen to some specific kind of music or song before you had to play a game?
I did not have a set order of doing things before a game. I just went with the flow. I never listened to music once I got in the locker room. That is another pet peeve of mind with today’s player. They isolate themselves from the people they are going to battle with. When I played, we talked to one another before games and not just about basketball. We would talk world issues and debate at times as well. That’s really the only part I miss about the game when I played – the fun we had in the locker room. For instance, when I played with the Charlotte Hornets in 1993, we had a fashion show before each game. Players would actually wait for you to walk in the locker room so they could dissect what you were wearing. Alonzo Mourning, Larry Johnson, Muggsy Bogues and Johnny Newman wore a different outfit for 82 games. I often wondered why Muggsy Bogues had his suits tailored when he was only 5-5 and could have bought his wardrobe at Target. They would hang up the worse outfit of the night and debate about it before our team meeting before the game. I have never laughed so hard in my life. I got to know all of those players that year because they did not isolate themselves and that was special.
I was just wondering what your thoughts are on the upcoming season for the Suns. Do you think DJ Strawberry and Alando along with Grant Hill will be enough to make up for losing Kurt Thomas and Junior or do they really need another quality big man to come off the bench before they can make it to the Finals? Also, Amare shot 66 percent from three-point land with Team USA. Are you going to give him some shooting pointers so he can become a deadly threat from anywhere on the court?
The question for the Suns this year and probably for the next three years with Steve Nash around is if they can get over the emotional hurdle the San Antonio Spurs present. That’s it! There are no other teams in the conference that can beat the Suns in a seven-game series (sorry, Maverick fans). The lost of Kurt Thomas and James Jones will hurt a lot if the Suns can’t find decent replacements. PJ Brown would be a welcome addition, but I believe he should jump in the fold now instead of during the season which is being tossed around. The hardest thing to do is come to a running team and try and catch up. Go ask Jalen Rose. If they do not get another big man, then Boris Diaw will have to play huge – which I personally believe he will this season. This will allow Amare to stay out of foul trouble and continue to dominate the paint for the Suns all season long. And yes, when the time comes he might be the second or third best three-point shooter on the roster. His mechanics are excellent.
Grant Hill will have the best season he has had since his years in Detroit. The pressure to perform and lead will not be there and so his relaxed role will pay major dividends on and off the court for the Suns this season.
Russ Said,
September 13, 2007 @ 10:04 am
Your stories about trash talking with NBA players are unbelievable. I can read about them all day. Do you have any others involving Jordan or Barkely or Magic?
Tom Manderalo Said,
September 13, 2007 @ 10:11 am
Thanks Eddie for answering my question. I had the first one about Toronto. Its good to know Toronto is creating some sort of buzz again. Its good to see people are noticing with our young cast of ballers. (Bosh, Tj , Jose, Bargs, and Garba when he gets back?. I believe that with the great play in the Euro tourney as of late from Calderon, and Delfino, we will be contending for the Division and also the Eastern Conference. Thanks for the respone Eddie.
Tom, T-Dot
Roy Foekens Said,
September 13, 2007 @ 11:25 am
Thanks Ediie for replying to my question! It was about the music listening before a game.
Great answer…
Rashidi Said,
September 13, 2007 @ 12:01 pm
“How will Memphis Grizzlies do for the PG position with four guards (Tarence Kinsey, Damon Stoudamire, Juan Carlos Navarro and Mike Conley)?”
Well for starters, two of those guys are going to get most of their burn at SG - JCN and Kinsey.
The Grizz have three PGs. Stoudamire, Conley, and KYLE LOWRY.
Two are basically rookies and Stoudamire is nothing more than a veteran at this point.
The plan is obviously that Damon will get about 25 mins a game with the rooks splitting time until one of them proves themselves worthy of more PT (or both) or they force Damon into a smaller role (or a buyout/trade).
“The Grizzlies have talent, but it remains to be seen if they can develop heart and toughness to get back to the 50-win plateau again.”
They have Gasol and bench players. Unless JCN is absolute lights out they don’t have a prayer of making the playoffs, much less winning 50 games. It’ll take a few years. Fortunately for them, Conley and Darko are very young. Unfortunately, their star player would very much prefer to win now and likely would like to get traded (Stoudamire has also stated this).
Adrian Said,
September 13, 2007 @ 12:20 pm
Eddie, I really respect how you played the game. I liked you with the Kings and when you were with the SUNS I was a Laker fan so I didn’t like you as much. Your game was tight. Here is my problem with what you are saying. You can’t compare era’s. The talent is spead too thin with all the un-needed expansion teams, also with NBA expansion teams started drafting younger and younger. Now how can you compare that Eddie? When you came into the league there was a lot of talent and you were not guaranteed a starting spot just because you were a lottery pick nor was the team full of 20-22 year olds. Where is the leadership? It’s like women always saying they are mature for their age? How crazy is that, they are only more mature than boys their age because they date older men, therefore they have someone to learn from exposed to different things. Emaka Okafor comes into the league to what? Raymond Felton and bunch of young unknowns? The Clippers had that issue for years. So Eddie you can’t compare era’s it makes no sense.
Also regarding the physicality of the league, guys when you played were not 23 years old with arms like Ray Lewis. Guys are bigger stronger and faster so the last thing you want is something life threatning happen. Oakley, Malone the Celtics teams and the eastern conference in the 80’s layed wood. But thank Pat Riley, Chuck Dailey for forcing the NBA to clean it up before a tradgedy happens.
In closing Eddie let me say this sports is at an all time low now because of one thing. That one thing is money, too much expansion has the NFL starting quaterbacks right out of college? Expansion has the Bulls winning 70 games 2 years in a row, expansion has AA pitchers servering golf balls to McGwire, Sosa and Bonds. Sports is a joke and we all know it, it’s all about getting fans in the stands to tell tickets and getting the casual fan to buy merchandise and come to the game. If that means changing the rules so be it. Blame David Stern, Taglibue, Bud Selig and the owners, players are like kids they will always do what you allow them to get away with
Rashidi Said,
September 13, 2007 @ 12:33 pm
“Assembling a team is extremely difficult because mixture can either enhance or destroy. If you look back at history, great teams have started with either the center position or the point guard position.”
You know, this is one of those adages that at one time might have had some weight, but it really isn’t true.
If you look back at history, great teams with great players were the ones that won championships.
Chicago and Utah certainly never had anything great at center. Phil Jackson teams haven’t even used point guards. Dallas is always weak at C and I wouldn’t call Terry/Harris much better than Felton. The Cavs got to the Finals with Lebron and not much else.
Larry Bird was not a C or a PG… but like LeBron, PLAYED like a PG… all the great players see the floor like a PG, be it Hakeem, Duncan, Shaq, Pippen, Jordan, Malone, etc. Being the best players (and thus making all the right decisions) is more important to team success than whether you are 7 feet tall, or a fast player that likes to dribble and pass.
Tim Hardaway and Alonzo Mourning didn’t do much winning.
Steve Nash and Amare Stoudemire still can’t get over the hump.
Tim Duncan has Tony Parker now, but earlier in his career Tony wasn’t that much better than Felton, and in 99 he had Avery Johnson , who wasn’t considered anything special at the position.
What the Bobcats DO lack is a superstar.
2007: Duncan, Lebron
2006: Wade, Shaq, Dirk
2005: Duncan
2004: Shaq, Kobe
2003: Duncan, Kidd
2002: Shaq, Kobe, Kidd
2001: Shaq, Kobe
2000: Shaq, Kobe, Iverson
1999: Duncan
Every NBA Finals has had at least one player who was considered top 3 at his position. The fact that the last nine NBA Finals have included Shaq or Duncan should tell you something. The best players in the league take their teams to glory. It’s not about being a PG or C, it’s about being the best. Go back further and it’s Jordan, Bird, Magic, Isiah, Malone, Stockton, Pippen, Hakeem, Barkley, Drexler, etc making the Finals appearances.
The Bobcats don’t have a player like that. They are an expansion team that has yet to find a franchise player in the draft. They are taking baby steps and trying to build respectability. Okafor/Felton/Richardson/Wallace will never contend for a championship together, but they should at least contend for the playoffs, which should appease a fanbase so supportive they turned the Charlotte Hornets into one of the NBA’s most marketable teams.
Rashidi Said,
September 13, 2007 @ 12:45 pm
“Do you think DJ Strawberry and Alando along with Grant Hill will be enough to make up for losing Kurt Thomas and Junior or do they really need another quality big man to come off the bench before they can make it to the Finals? ”
I’m sure the Suns are praying that Hill has no health issues, but the team has enough firepower that it wouldn’t miss him that much.
The Suns are more or less the same team they were last year. They have a little less depth but that just means more minutes for Diaw who was at his best in 2005 filling in for everyone.
I think the main reason for Phoenix’s interest in PJ is to keep him away from Dallas, I don’t really think he is a good fit on the team for whatever salary he wants, they could get similar production out of a lesser player like an Alan Henderson. PJ has played half-court his whole career, and coming to a run and gun team is probably not using him to his best ability. Michael Sweetney is young and has talent, the questions are how in shape he is. Danny Fortson would be a great fit if he wasn’t a thug and coach headache. The best fit ultimately might be former Sun Clifford Robinson, a good defender who can hit the three.
Also, Amare shot 66 percent from three-point land with Team USA. Are you going to give him some shooting pointers so he can become a deadly threat from anywhere on the court?
grog. Said,
September 13, 2007 @ 4:56 pm
Rashidi,
The Pistons won the championship in ‘04, not the Lakers. Do you think the Pistons had a ‘top 3′ player at any of the five positions?
The correct answer is no, but they were badass anyway.
DJHOTT Said,
September 13, 2007 @ 5:37 pm
DO U THINK PORTLAND REGRETS DRAFTING ODEN OVER DURANT NOW THAT HE IS OUT FOR THE YEAR? THEIR NUMBER ONE NEED WAS A VERSATILE SF, AND A 6′10 DURANT, BEST COLLEGE PLAYER IN 15 YEARS,
WAS RIGHT THERE, AND BIG ZACK FINALLY DIDNT GET IN MUCH TROUBLE AND HAD A CAREER YEAR 23PPG 10REBS, AND U LET HIM GO. ODEN MAY NEVER AVERAGE 23PPG, OR MAYBE IN 5 YEARS, AND I THINK WITH DURANT AND RANDOLPH, THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN A 8 OR 9 SEED, BETTER THAN LA
G-JARRETT JACKG-S.BLAKE G.S.RODRIGUEZ
GB.ROY G.M.WEBSTER FC-R.LAFRENTZ
F-K.DURANT F-D.MILES
F-Z.RANDOLPH F-JT.OUTLAW
C-L.ALDRIGE J.PRIZBILLA
NOW WITHOUT ODEN, THEY MAY LOOSE SOME GAMES TO GET A TOP 3 PICK NEXT YEAR, AND GET PG DERRICK ROSE, OR COMBO,OJ MAYO
DJHOTT Said,
September 13, 2007 @ 5:50 pm
AMARE LOOKS LIKE HE ONLY WEIGHS 220 NOW,
AND I DONT WANT TO SEE HIM SHOOTING 3′S NEXT YEAR
UNLESS HE BUYS EDDIES TAPE, ALSO IF MARION HAD THE MOST SHOT ATTEMPTS ON THE SUNS, WHY IS HE COMPLAING ABOUT BEING 3RD FIDDLE, HE JUST NEEDS TO GET A JUMPSHOT AND PLAY HARDER SO THEY WILL WIN THE CHAMPIONSHIP, BEFORE HE GETS TRADED TO THE LIKES OF
INDIANA, OR ATLANTA, BUT HE COULD BE HAPPY IN NEW ORLEANS,MILWAUKEE, OR NEW YORK
NO COULD TRY-P.STOJAKOVIC, B.JACKSON,AND HILTON ARMSTRONG
MILWAUKEE COULD GO-C.BELL,C.VILLANOVA,B.SIMMONS GADZURIC
OR NEW YORK COULD GO-D.LEE,N.ROBINSON,J.JEFFRIES, AND OR Q.RICHARDSON
MARION TO NY
G-MARBURY
G-J.CRAWFORD
F-S.MARION
F-Z.RANDOLPH
C-E.CURRRY
frank Said,
September 13, 2007 @ 6:00 pm
eddie,
i’m gonna back you up on “If you look back at history, great teams have started with either the center position or the point guard position.” so i better get some dap, or i’ll be upset.
so rashidi, this message is for you.
i think that if you asked any general manager in the league, that they would rather have the best point guard or center in the league before any other position. and sometimes it helps having both. history has proven it. here’s some of the more notable championship teams with hall of fame point guards and/or centers.
the bucks only championship was won by oscar robertson and lew alcindor.
the knicks won with reed and frazier.
the bullets had wes unseld and elvin hayes, that’s two big men.
the sonics had lenny wilkens.
the lakers one with mikan, shaq, chamberlain, and kareem(for some of you who don’t know, lew alcindor is kareem much like finkel is einhorn, but without the hemmorroids). not to mention having jerry west and magic as well.(yes, i know i didn’t mention kobe but we’re talking about point guards)
the celtics had russell to go along with cousy. he also had hondo, who pretty much played point forward much like bird did for his celtic teams, however, rashidi’s assessment of bird’s teams not having a dominant point or center is wrong. during the celtics run in the 80’s, they had a top 3 center of his generation and now hall of famer in robert parrish, and who most experts will arguably say is the best defensive point guard ever in the late, great dennis johnson, who will also get a hall of fame nod in the near future. they also had an aging bill walton who also led the blazers to their only ring.
the same argument can be made for the heat, if you wanna tell me wade could’ve done it without shaq, then think again.
the sixers won with wilt, and although dr.j was the star on the ‘83 team, he couldn’t do it without moses malone, who won the finals mvp.
the rockets had hakeem.
the spurs had robinson and duncan, that would be two big men. then when the admiral decided to retire, tony parker became a player, and a pretty good one if you ask me. at least good enough to win the finals mvp.
an argument can be made against the pistons, but isaiah was probably the best point guard not named earvin during his career and chauncey played like he was the best point guard in the league during the 2004 season. also, they implored more of a team concept, top to bottom, they were the best built teams.
the only serious anomaly to this situation was michael jordan. yes he had scottie, rodman, and even horace grant, but none of his centers and point guards, are gonna even come close to making a hall of fame ballot. and only one player from either of those positions made an all star team while playing with mj(that would be bj armstrong, but come to think of it, he got his all-star nod while mj was swinging a bat).
also, to mention utah or dallas as a great team is ridiculous. i got an adage for you to chew on. how about:
“always a bridesmaid. never the bride.”
in order to be considered great, you have to win. something utah and dallas have proven they can’t do.
all in all, yes i do agree with you that the great ones are the ones that win. but it seems that a large majority of the great ones have either won with great point guards and/or centers or were in fact those great point guards or centers themselves. those teams have accounted for 52 of the league’s 60 championships. that’s close to 90 percent.
that’s why oden was picked ahead of durant. and that’s the only reason hakeem and bowie were picked ahead jordan. it’s a game of numbers. if it works 90 percent of the time, then why not go with the flow.
PS>> if this does not solidify once again why michael jordan is the BEST basketball player ever, then i give up.
frank Said,
September 13, 2007 @ 6:04 pm
yes i know i misspelled won
mad child Said,
September 13, 2007 @ 7:32 pm
Great article. Loving the old school stories. http://www.powerof15.blogspot.com there might be more there. check it out
eddiesucks Said,
September 13, 2007 @ 8:08 pm
i believe utah is another team that can beat the suns in a 7 game series.
Rashidi Said,
September 13, 2007 @ 8:18 pm
It is interesting how you mention a long list of Celtics and Lakers players. Depth is also a big part of championships. How many of those teams that won had poor benches?
Larry Bird had Robert Parish and Dennis Johnson, but don’t think for a minute that those guys are the reason they won NBA titles. The Celtics would still be good without either, and they would be nothing without Bird. They also had Kevin McHale, and solid benches every year.
The Lakers also happened to have James Worthy and similar bench depth.
The 70s Knicks had Reed and Frazier. But also DeBusschure, Monroe, and as above, bench depth out the wazoo.
The Bad Boy Pistons were not just Isiah and trash. Joe Dumars, Dennis Rodman, Bill Laimbeer, Mark Aguirre, Vinny Johnson, come on man.
You can also throw history out the window because the game has been different in each decade. Early on basketball was dominated by centers, but the rules are no longer geared towards that. The fact remains that most of the players you listed, great bigs and pgs, most of them were former MVPs.
PGs initiate the offense and do most of the ball control, they are obviously important. But these skills are not unique to the position -just ask Kevin Garnett.
Cs typically hang in the post for high percentage shots, and are the last line of your team’s defense. Size is obviously a factor in the NBA, one so large it often overrides talent. Great players like KG or Duncan would have been good players had they stopped growing at 6′6, but at 6′11 it has allowed them to be game changers on both ends.
However, in TODAY’S NBA, speed has become more important than size. Shaq can no longer just bulldoze people out of the way. Players who cannot stay in front of their man or run the floor are becoming obsolete.
How many great lumbering centers are there in the NBA right now? Most centers ARE power forwards. Want a list?
Tim Duncan
Amare Stoudemire
Elton Brand
Jermaine O’Neal
Chris Bosh
Emeka Okafor
Ben Wallace
Pau Gasol
Rasheed Wallace
Al Jefferson
Mehmet Okur
Chris Webber
All these PFs played at least half of their minutes at center.
And this is not unique to star PFs either, here’s a list of mediocre PFs who mostly play center
Stromile Swift
Anderson Varejao
Michael Sweetney
Danny Fortson
Robert Traylor
Mikki Moore
Ronny Turiaf
Nick Collison
Kurt Thomas
Fabricio Oberto
Antonio Davis
Dale Davis
LaMarcus Aldridge
Channing Frye
Guys lke Hakeem and Robinson were athletic for their position, great passers, ball handlers, defenders, shooters, these guys were PLAYERS. Their size did not matter except that it allowed them to control the game.
Now ask yourself this question. Are centers backward compatible? How many centers do you see manning the PF spot? When the Heat got Mourning, fans were dreaming of Zo slotting next to Shaq at PF. But the reality is both players are centers, and Zo can’t handle PF. He isn’t versatile enough at either end. Both players are shotblockers and clog the middle. Today’s NBA is all about spreading the floor and getting fastbreaks. This is also why the Bulls with Eddy Curry and Tyson Chandler did not work. You could not play both on the court at the same time.
A team will obviously not be good if it has nobody to initiate the offense. But as the Celtics proved with Larry Bird, the Bulls proved with Scottie Pippen, and the Cavs are proving with LeBron, it is not necessary for this player to be a 6′2 pass first player.
Dominating on offense and defense is what makes a team good. It has always been easy for basketball to be dominated by big men for fairly obvious (the rim is 10 feet off the ground) reasons. But players at each position in the league have all gotten bigger and stronger. Talent is now outweighing size and strength.
Willis Reed, Hall of Fame center, was 6 foot 9 and 235 pounds soaking wet. That’s equivalent to Kurt Thomas. LeBron James is 6′8 and 250 pounds. He can drive to the basket and score on anyone, make excellent passes, run his teams offense, and while he’s knocked for his shooting, I would have to think he’s much better at it than similar sized guys like Anthony Mason or Larry Johnson.
Dwyane Wade (who by the way, you forgot to mention but sure made light of Billups/Parker fluke Finals MVPs) could not be stopped against Dallas. He averaged something like 38 for the series, and has always dominated in the playoffs. When healthy, he cannot be stopped. Shaq, who averaged only 10 points against Dallas in the Finals, can be stopped nowadays. Wade gets by opponents at will and thus CONTROLS THE GAME. Dirk changes the entire defense because most players his own size are totally incapable of staying in front of him. Their position does not matter. Their impact on the court does.
Rashidi Said,
September 13, 2007 @ 8:23 pm
“and that’s the only reason hakeem and bowie were picked ahead jordan.”
Uh, no. Bowie was picked ahead of Jordan because the Blazers already had this guy named Clyde. I forget what his last name was, but he ended up being the 2nd best SG of his era, made three Finals appearances (one against Michael, liek WOAH 2 teams led by their SG in the same year), and won a championship with Hakeem (acquired for big man Otis Thorpe).
Rashidi Said,
September 13, 2007 @ 8:36 pm
“also, to mention utah or dallas as a great team is ridiculous. i got an adage for you to chew on. how about:
“always a bridesmaid. never the bride.”
Sorry, but there is more than one great team every year. Somebody has to lose each year. Are you going to tell me all those years the Celtics lost to the Lakers, they weren’t a great team?
There are only four teams in NBA history that won 64 games and didn’t win the NBA championship.
There’s this year’s Mavericks, and Boston when Havlicek got hurt in the playoffs.
And then there’s the 96 Sonics and the 97 Jazz, who lost in the Finals to 72 and 69 win Bulls teams.
To say that the Jazz were not a great team is ASININE. They couldn’t get past the greatest team of all-time. Big freakin deal. If I’ve got my choice between the 97 Jazz and NBA champions like the 94 or 95 Rockets, or the 99 Spurs, or the 2006 Heat, you think I’m not taking Utah? Or even the 93 Suns over any of those teams?
Who would you take? The 97 Jazz or the 94 Rockets? Let’s start there.
frank Said,
September 13, 2007 @ 10:29 pm
rashidi,
i would take either championship rockets team over the 97 jazz. first off, both the 94 and 95 rockets team beat the jazz en route to both their rings. the jazz also had practically the same roster as in 97 as they did in 94 and 95, including stockton, malone, hornacek and russell. but i’ll go with your question, the 94 rockets vs. the 97 jazz.
center
olajuwon vs. ostertag
hakeem humbled every center of his generation. ewing, robinson, and also a young shaq. so what makes you think either ostertag could do anything?
advantage: rockets
power forward
thorpe vs. malone
o t was a good enough defender, and although he may not have been able to shut down malone, he would’ve made him work for every rebound and point. that said, malone would still put up 25 and 10.
advantage: jazz
small forward
horry vs. russell
this position comes down to who can defend and hit more big shots. byron russell or a young robert horry. and as history has shown…
advantage: rockets
shooting guard
maxwell vs. hornacek
this would’ve been a fun matchup. both hit open shots, but were not really adequate defenders. and they both practically have identical stats throughout those respective years.
advantage: even
point guard
smith vs. stockton
i like kenny, but john stockton is an all time great. without stockton, malone would’nt have been half the player he was.
advantage: jazz
bench
elie, cassell, and hererra vs. carr, eisley, anderson, and foster
elie and cassell contributed very pivotal minutes and big shots for the rockets. carr’s contribution would’ve been negated by having to play hakeem, and eisley really did nothing else than give stockton a breather here and there.
advantage: rockets
coach
tomjanovich vs. sloan
rudy had a deeper team, but jerry had two of the nba’s 50 greatest players. the masterful tactician vs. the inspirational coach.
advantage: even
i think the series would be close, but the rockets win 4-2. stockton and malone can do their thing, but everyone else would not. the rockets on the other hand, are able to count on not only hakeem, but others as well. cassell and big shot bob proved then, and have proven throughout their careers that they come to play in the playoffs.
as to your other responses to my post:
i did mention wade, but the question was about point guards remember. and dwyane is more of a combo guard than a pure point guard.
and i never said the bad boys had nothing else. i just said the pistons built their franchise around a hall of fame point guard. and i did say they were one of the best assembled teams ever.
so willis was a small center, but he still had walt frazier. the argument was for both.
and when i say great teams, i mean the ones holding the o’brien trophy at the end of the year. just b/c you make the finals doesn’t entitle greatness. recently, look at the nets, sixers and cavs.
and yeah, the lakers teams that lost to the celtics were great and vice versa. why? because they won their fair share. that was a rivalry. it went on for nearly a decade. are you trying to tell me the jazz rivaled the bulls? not even close. they played them in the championship twice. where were they the previous four? and why couldn’t they beat the rockets while mj was gone? or the spurs in the strike shortened season? i’ll answer that question for you. because karl malone was not clutch. and he couldn’t be the big man that stockton needed.
and yes, you’re right that the blazers picked bowie b/c of drexler, but they should’ve picked jordan. he was the next best person available. number 2 on everyone’s draft board. but they wanted a player with the potential to be a dominant big man.
and yes i know we are watching a game today, not with definitive positions, but hybrids who can play multiple ones. it’s now more of a matter of wings and posts. bigs and smalls. there really aren’t pure positions in the nba anymore. the game is changing as we speak.
i guess your misinterpreting the point. all that was said was that, if you look back to the history of the nba, a center and point guard are considered to be the two most crucial parts of a championship team. every team you mentioned either had one of them in place or couldn’t win until they got one.
i do agree that depth does matter, and i never said it didn’t. but the depth of most of the aforementioned championship teams were built around either of the two positions. let’s look at the dynastic teams:
the lakers started with mikan the later on had shaq. the early celtics always had russell. kareem and magic were in place before they acquired cooper, worthy, and scott. and although larry was there first , he couldn’t do it by himself so they traded for parrish and dj and drafted mchale.
but i’ll tell you what, for the sake of argument, and due to the fact that i do agree that larry was more pivotal to them winning then anyone else, we’ll take away the three championships that bird’s celts won and put them in the “non center/pg” category. that still gives you 49 championships won by center/pg led teams since the league’s inaugural year. that’s still 80 %. it’s just the blueprint that works. and until lebron or kobe or melo or wade can do what mj did then, you gotta go with the numbers.
however, i’m not saying i believe in it. i would pick mj over any player in any era, and i would still take any bulls team, especially the 97 team, and stack them against any team in the league’s history. but that’s why it’s the anomaly. no dominant center or point guard and they rolled off two 3-peats, and could’ve easily have won 9-11 in a row, if mj didn’t decide to play baseball and if the dim-witted duo of krause and reinsdorf weren’t so bullheaded to realize that their team wasn’t getting that old and to keep it together until they actually lost a championship.
frank Said,
September 13, 2007 @ 10:55 pm
also, to use the the size of athletes and athletic ability as an argument when comparing eras is a moot point. so willis was a small center, he still battled with wilt and russell. and just like every other sport, everyone is getting bigger, faster, and stronger. it’s evolution. a new type of player. that’s what lebron is, a freak of nature with unbelievable talents. he’s the best overall combination of size, speed, agility and skill that this game has seen yet. but willis still has two more rings on his fingers and you can’t take that away.
Ishmael Said,
September 14, 2007 @ 4:06 am
Eddie, you just took it to another level. Those inside stories about your playing days really hit the mark. That’s why we’re basketball fans, to know those stories, to get a little close to that thrill of the game.
space Said,
September 14, 2007 @ 9:09 am
–eddie
we can always guess, but we never really consider the depth of the game unless we were in it, there, or sitting behind a teams bench. trash talk and rivalries are an everyday thing in basketball, but that was pretty deep. i may be giving away a million dollar idea, but ever consider writing an insider book strictly on the ingame facts and relationships of players and the team habits from both your experience and other players?
–rashidi
way harsh on the bobcats. the detroit pistons, a great team didn’t have a superstar when they won their 1st championship or made successive runs to the conference finals. they have hellified senior talent but no 30pt per gamer. their closest star, rasheed is a character star, and billups a blue collar veteran with great skills and numbers. proof that a star isn’t absolutely necessary. course its great to have but it’s not impossible.
so many young building teams fizzle out and never make it just because. building a young team is based so much on chance and luck. you have to give ‘Air GM’ credit for the work so far no matter what happens there.
dallas: popeye jones, sean rooks, jason kidd, jim, jackson, jamal mashburn
charlotte: larry johnson, alonzo mourning, mugsy bogues, kendall gill
twolves: stephon marbury, kevin garnett, tom gugliotta
atlanta hawks: current roster
jay Said,
September 14, 2007 @ 10:20 am
Hmmmm is this Eddie’s blog or Rashidi’s or Frank’s??? Hmmmm… let’s see… wait let me check that again… still the same thing… check again… same… Oh i give up, hehehe!
“He who can piss the highest is the greatest, but he will wet his face in the process” -Confucious, great chinese philospher
Jacob Said,
September 14, 2007 @ 10:34 am
Hey Eddie,
Thanks for answering my question about the FIBA basketball wearing and tearing.
I always enjoy your articles because you give us an insight 99% of us wont know which is that of on the court instances, you are one of my favorite basketball writers and hope you continue to do so until my children are long gone (unrealistic) but i can hope.
Take care.
Jacob Said,
September 14, 2007 @ 10:34 am
the bobcats lack ownership and management, michael jordan cant run a team. just ask kwame brown.
Eddie Said,
September 14, 2007 @ 11:04 am
Rashidi
i think Frank took the words right out of my mouth. i must add this and know its true Rashidi.
stop using the word great so loosely. great is the top. great is reserved for the ones at the top.
If the Bulls were a great team, how could Utah or Dallas be a great team?
people use the word great to much.
i must admit i am great at getting some of you guys upset, but i did not consider myself a great ball-player. great shooter-yes.
find better words to use below great, like good, talented, etc.
save great for Jordan, Magic, Oscar, Kareem, Russell, Duncan, Malone etc.
Celtics, Lakers, Bulls were great teams. they would have won championships at anytime.
Joey P. Said,
September 14, 2007 @ 11:09 am
Who in the hell is Rashidi and why is he hi-jacking Chi-towns Greatest, Eddie Johnson’s blog?
Rashitty, go edit a CAP or 2, leave the NBA talk for Chi-towns Finest, EJ!!!
Yo 6th Man Eddie, when are you gonna go back to U of Illinois to coach?
Rashidi Said,
September 14, 2007 @ 12:12 pm
“If the Bulls were a great team, how could Utah or Dallas be a great team?”
The Bulls were more than a great team, they were the best of all-time. The fact is there are teams they beat in the playoffs that would have easily been NBA Champions in other years. How many great players didn’t win rings because they played in the Jordan era? If Utah is not a great team because it didn’t win in the Jordan era, then I guess Malone and Stockton are not great players. Ditto for Barkley, Ewing, Reggie, and Dominique.
Also, Frank, Hornacek and Maxwell even? Are you kidding me?
Maxwell - .389 FG%
Hornacek - .482 FG%
In fact, FG% is a huge reason why the Jazz would have beaten Houston. Utah shot an astoudning .504 from the field that year, compared to .475 for the Rockets in 94. Utah in 94 shot only .477 so they clearly improved somewhere.
Utah’s defense also improved. You may rag on Ostertag, but he was much better than 94 starting center Felton Spencer, who logged 67 blocks in 70something games and 2200 minutes. Russell was also an upgrade over 94 starting SF Tyrone Corbin. Finally, Malone was even better in 97 than 94, which is a big reason why he was named MVP. He was still improving into his 30s.
Russell (10.8 ppg, 4.1 rpg) stats don’t differ much from Horry (9.9 ppg, 5.4 rpg). You used “stats” as your reasoning for making Maxwell and Horny “even”. Then you compared what Horry would do later in his career to what Russell would do later in his career, which is downright HYPOCRITICAL. Maxwell and Hornacek’s careers are not even close, so why not use that same rational there? Like it or not, Horry was a second year player who knew not what destiny had in store for him down the line. He was not Big Shot Bob. He was a young role player that could hit open shots and defend, just like Russell.
Houston’s bench was not that great either. Cassell was not really a big contributor and other than Finals game 3 so it’s not like he was a key player for them. He averaged 6.7 ppg. Not exactly much difference between he and Utah backup Howard Eisley at that stage of this career. After him and Elie (9.3 ppg), you’ve got Scott Brooks and Carl Herrera. The Utah bench was a bit deeper with Carr, Anderson, Eisley, Morris, Keefe, and Foster all logging 900+ minutes. I find it hard to see how you can actuallly give the edge to the Rockets here. Carr would have been negated by Hakeem? What, you think Sam Cassell wouldn’t have been punked by Stockton? Like Carl Herrera would have been a Karl-stopper? You are just trying to paint the Jazz bench in a negative light, when the fact is the Rockets were only nine deep. Malone and Hakeem were both 27 ppg scorers. Malone had better teammates. Sorry to say, but not one of Houston’s other players had an impact anywhere close to John Stockton. Utah shot 50% from the field man. Houston’s backcourt was just too inefficient by comparison, it’s not like they were led by a great PG either.
C: Rockets
PF: Jazz
SF: Even
SG: Jazz
PG: Jazz
Bench: Jazz
Coach: Even
Offense: Jazz
Defense: Even
In summary: 97 Jazz > 94 or 95 Jazz
George Said,
September 14, 2007 @ 1:18 pm
Eddie, I always enjoy your articles, though I have some occasional quibbles. The rule changes today, geared towards allowing perimeter players a free passage through the lane and open looks at the basket, have created a group of so called “superstars” with playground skills but not much else. In the past rules were created to prevent great players from scoring too much… The Big Dipper a notable example. Shaq is another one. For the people who think that centers are obsolete in this day and age I want to point to some interesting stats… When the Lakers had Shaq and Kobe their winning percentage was in the low 60s. When Kobe was injured the Laker’s winning percentage was in the low 70s and when Shaq was injured Lakers played .500 a bit less whenthey were both injured, like they do now. I don’t know if anyone has done the numbers for the Heat, but I do know last season when Shaq was injured, Flash and the Heat played .500 ball and when he came back and Flash went out they went on a tear. Mind you, Shaq is not in his prime, the rules force him to sit out good chunks of the game and Flash had Alonzo Morning when Shaq was out. You need bigs playing in the low post to win… I don’t care if they call themselves PF or Centers these days. Mind you Timmy-D is a Center no matter where he is listed. As for the PG I’ll mention that despite his skills, KG did not get very far without Sam I Am. Neither did the Clippers. Obviously Tex’s triangle offense is an exception, however it is not the exception that disproves the rule.
AS for Rashidi, Eddie wrote Center OR PG. It’s good to have both but you need at least one. The only exception to that is obviously MJ.
Cheers.
MJF Said,
September 14, 2007 @ 2:05 pm
Eddie: respectfully, I think you’re wrong about Okafor.
Lifetime he’s 14ppg - 11rpg - 2blks/game.
Last year he shot 53%, got nearly 4 offensive rbs/game, and he’s only 26 years old. If he makes a few free throws (50% free throw shooting drives me nuts), he gets 16 ppg. Surely you can compete in the conference, win playoff games and yes, win championships with that kind of production from the 5 spot. The league’s had plenty of teams that made the Finals with less center production than that. Isn’t the question about the kind of talent with which you surround a defense-minded rebounding center? I’ll agree on Felton; the jury is out on the ‘Cats’ point guard play. But surely they could compete at the highest level with Okafor’s production. This comes down to (as you said), point guard play; I would throw in front-court depth as well. It looks like they’ve stocked the team with wing players; a trade to gain strength at the aforementioned two spots will help. {and if Emeka’s spine acts up, I take back the preceeding paragraph ;-}
Connie Said,
September 14, 2007 @ 2:25 pm
Eddie,
Thanks for the tales from days of yore of the trash-talking that takes (took) place during the games.
What no one has mentioned yet (well, maybe someone mentioned, but after the first 40 or so posts by Rashidi and Frank, I just skipped the rest of their long-winded drivel) is the motivation behind such antics. Of course, elite athletes are driven by competition and the need to win, but the trash-talking, when you get down to it, is just a psychological weapon to get into the other guys head. Eddie, you allude to this in your original post, but it is important to state and understand it explicity. Great stories, and I second the person above that recomends you write a book about this!
And speaking of psychological factors, your point about the players listening to their music before the games was right on! My wife and I were at the gymn together last week on the treadmills and we noticed that of all the people on the treadmills and elipticals and bikes (about 20), besides the two of us, there was only one other person that was not wearing an I-Pod! We live in a society and era where people have a multitude of ways to cut themselves off from their fellow man, and the I-Pod is one of the most effective at this. When I see someone at the gymn with their ear-buds in, it says to me, “don’t talk to me”, and I don’t. How sad! So today’s players who spend their pre-game time isoltated with their music or video games instead of bonding with their teamates will be less than a cohesive team. And we fans witness the results.
Also good to hear that you think that LeBron may be a little tired after the Team USA games. I just heard that he had Lasik surgery and that makes me just sick to my stomach.
Maybe that was the reason that he hasn’t been a great outside shooter in the past. If so, that will suck for the rest of the league!
Eddie Said,
September 14, 2007 @ 2:56 pm
Rashidi
your long winded answers don’t validate you. look here it is in the nutshell.
Stockton and Malone were great players, but this is not tennis or golf. they just did not have great teams.
case in point. the americans have the best golfers, but they got their butt kicked in the rider cup. another—we have the best basketball players but we have gotten our butts kicked lately until last week.
Great means ultimate success—go ask Malone and Stockton would they term their careers ultimate sucess without the ring.
stop writing all that jargon–that will not impress me.
Jacob Said,
September 14, 2007 @ 3:11 pm
eddie is the man.
and hopefully lasik surgery for lebron will help him hit the celtics bench the next time he spits at them.
ps im a celtics fan
and it feels great the turn of events of kg instead of oden…
…and where are the trash talking blazer fans now?
Brian Said,
September 14, 2007 @ 3:35 pm
I miss the good days of the game when a miscue did not result in a flagrant. I think it has ruined the game in ways but not to the extent I will not watch it. As for what kind of players champions have, the great does not need to be a PG or C. Every championship team will either have a strong inside presense, outside presense, or ideally both. It may come from PG or C but it may also come from the SG,SF, and PF positions.
frank Said,
September 14, 2007 @ 4:45 pm
to everyone ripping on my 3, albeit long winded blogs, but i was just trying to back up eddie’s statements. i apologize to those not wanting to read them but there is a thing called a scroll button, so just use it next time.
and eddie gave me some dap for it, and it is his blog, so my efforts were appreciated.
as for rashidi,
i’m uessing you gave up on the original argument and moved on to this “great teams” debate. let’s not forget that stockton came in the same year as hakeem and mj in 1984. malone came in the year after in 1985. mj got scottie in 1987. and hakeem never really had a bonafide sidekick until clyde was acquired in 1994-95. this gave the jazz ample time to build their team as well. and low and behold, the jazz started to build their team around a POINT GUARD. but had to settle for a choke artist power forward instead of a dominant big man. but they couldn’t. the jazz were always a second rate team, and if you really want to get into it. the winner of the west in those years couldn’t beat the 3rd best team in the east. much like today. making the jazz just a step above the 2000 sixers, the 2002 nets, and the 2006 cavs.
the fact is the only great teams of the last twenty five years are the bulls, the lakers, the celtics, the rockets, the spurs and the pistons. all those teams consistently made it to the nba finals, and although some have lost the championship, they have also come back to win them eventually. coming close only counts in horseshoes, not basketball. and if you consider being second best to be great, then i guess the bills are the greatest team ever in football. i mean no team has ever made it to the super bowl four straight times and lost it four straight times. keep striving for second best rashidi, it will get you far in life.
Brian Boytono Said,
September 14, 2007 @ 5:23 pm
Frank you talk to much I lose interest when you write Novels. Back when I was a world class figure skater Dorothy Hammel had a word For you “blowhard”.
Eddie Said,
September 14, 2007 @ 10:39 pm
Brian
Frank makes plenty of sense though. so be nice and read and learn (-:
Dimitris Said,
September 15, 2007 @ 6:45 am
Hi Eddie. I am a Suns fun from Greece. Just wanted to tell you that i really enjoy your opinions on this blog and also your coments during the Suns games. I remeber you as a great player when you were playing here in Greece althought you were not at the prime of your carrer and despite the fact that you played at our rival club and you torched my team so many times (Panathinaikos). Respect for a great player and a real proffesional athlete like you.
jay Said,
September 15, 2007 @ 7:15 am
Some of you guys seems to know a lot about NBA basketball specially those related to stats. The NBA season is about to start in a few months so if some of you play fantasy games maybe we can make our own league (or better yet Eddie’s League) so we can put those “skills and knowledge” to good use. What do you guys think?
Geadl Said,
September 15, 2007 @ 9:11 am
I think Eddie Johnson is one of the best NBA reads. Better than most journalists. Not only because he was there, but because he speaks plainly.
Well Done. I look forward to your next piece.
BRockin25 Said,
September 15, 2007 @ 11:36 am
You say guys are more sensitive in this era, and I agree. I don’t know what it is, but there are few guards in the NBA or anywhere else that would trash talk bigger players, take their best shots, and be fine w/ it after the game. Guards are protected so much on all levels that if you breathe on them they start crying. It hurts the game. There are no more enforcers, and games come down to who complains and what officials buy rather than toughness.
DJHOTT Said,
September 15, 2007 @ 1:51 pm
IF U KNEW HOW DEEP THE 08 DRAFT IS, IF CHARLOTTE CAN LUCK UP AND GET A TOP 5 PICK, THEY WILL MAKE THE PLAYOFFS
SAY THEY DRAFT ROY HIBBERT
FELTON6′1 14.8 7.2ASTS
J.RICHARDSON6′6 20.8PPG
G.WALLACE6′7 17.2PPG
E.OKAFOR6′10 16.8 12.8
R.HIBBERT7′2 9.4PPG 7.8REBS
BENCH-12.2PPGA.MORRISON,P.BRIZOVEC,SEAN MAY,JEFF MCCINNIS
frank Said,
September 15, 2007 @ 2:21 pm
i’m up for the fantasy league idea. i say eddie is the commish. eddie?
Connie Said,
September 15, 2007 @ 3:07 pm
There are already so many fantasy leagues going, doing we need another one? I don’t.
Eddie, are the Suns going to sign another big before the season or not? (and I don’t mean Zarko or Mario Bennett) This is really a sad thing that Sarver had to cut Kurt’s salary (not to mention the 2 first round picks that went with him)
Mike Said,
September 15, 2007 @ 9:05 pm
Thanks for answering my question Eddie. I love what you said about you scoring 8 - 10 more points a game with the current NBA rules. Thats what i say to any of my friends who try to tell me that Kobe is even close to Jordan. Kobe can get his 30 a game in todays game, but Jordan would of scored 50 a game if he played today in the “soft” era of basketball. Ill take a 65-62 Knicks-Heat game anyday of the week over a 125-120 Suns Mavs game!
Blake Said,
September 15, 2007 @ 9:12 pm
I’d like to note that Eddie doesn’t have to give Amare any pointers on his jump shooting, not when the Suns have Phil Weber.
For those that don’t know, Phil is probably the best shooting coach in the whole league, he’s fixed some broken shots and he’s refined some already good ones. I’m also pretty sure Eddie already knows this, being so close to the team.
George Said,
September 16, 2007 @ 12:54 am
People tend to be very frivolous when defining greatness. They only great teams that I can think of are the ‘96 Bulls, Russell’s Celtics, ‘66-’67 Seventy-Sixers, ‘71-’72 Lakers, ‘69-’70 Knicks and maybe the ‘88-’90 Pistons. That is it.
jay Said,
September 16, 2007 @ 1:45 am
What I’m suggesting is that we join pre-existing fantasy leagues like the one’s in NBA.com or Yahoo. NBA sportswriters and analysts created their own league in NBA fantasy games to test their “feel” for the game so why don’t we do the same since we are all NBA enthusiasts and fanatics. Seeing some of you guys talk like experts and sometimes write longer than Eddie himself (in his own blog, hehehe), why dont you put your money where your mouth is and play? You think some GM’s suck for drafting or trading the wrong guy? Then show us what you would have done if placed on the same situation. If you guys are not just all about talk, then i think there will be a hell of a competition to expect. We will be honored if Eddie can spare some time and play with us.
I-Win Said,
September 16, 2007 @ 6:15 am
I’m Eddie Johnson and back in my days blah blah blah…
…You know, in my days, blah blah blah…
…Hi, I’m Eddie Johnson, and back in my days, I was somebody. But now, blah blah blah
Eddie Said,
September 16, 2007 @ 9:54 am
i-win
you ever heard of compounded interest. well i am even better off now than back in the day. you lose LOL
Michael Bennett Said,
September 16, 2007 @ 10:40 am
I thought you made your fortune through Scottsdale real estate and JSC…
Great article, Eddie. There’s nothing in the world (well… some things) better than hearing stories of ex/current professional athletes. I can only imagine the four thousand other stories that you have… Hmm… Is there a tell-all book in your future? I’d love it.
I’ve been reading about the Michael Jordan and Bill Russell Vegas fantasy camps lately, and, one of these years, I think I’m going to do it. If anything but to play a round of golf with Bill Russell!!! Eddie, have you ever coached/spoke at one of those? On a special shooting day? Just curious…
The only beef I have with your article is the hands-off comments - You think you would have scored 8-10 more points, and Jordan would have scored more. I think you have a point. But, like Mike said, if that’s true, why is everyone (including YOU) saying that Kobe is the best offensive player ever? Doesn’t the opposite hold true? If Kobe is scoring 31ppg in the current NBA, does that mean he’d score 24ppg in the 80s?
And, although the rules have changed, do you really think that today’s game/refs abide 100% by those rule changes? Do you really believe that players can’t touch each other when they catch the ball and face the basket? When I was reading that, all I could think of was the Lakers/Kings match-up in the Conference Finals a few years ago… Bobby Jackson vs. Kobe Bryant in the 4th Quarter. They were all over each other, so much so that they were untucking each other’s jerseys because of all the contact. And, no foul calls. Do you really think the rule applies?
It was great reading your new article. Keep ‘em coming.
Rashidi Said,
September 16, 2007 @ 11:22 am
Eddie
126 regular season wins and two Finals appearances over two years says otherwise.
How many other teams have done better?
BILLY Said,
September 16, 2007 @ 6:32 pm
We’re still talking about Greg Oden right? The guy that led his team to the National Championship game as a freshman? the 7foot 19 year old that dominates on the defensive end like we havent seen since Olajuwon (especially his UNREAL shotblocking)? Still talking about the Greg Oden that put up better scoring numbers as a freshman than Shaq, Ewing, Dream, and nearly every other franchise center we’ve seen…. and oh yeah, did this WITH 1 HAND??? We’re still talking about Oden right? The same player who hung 25 and 12 on Florida and damn near singlehandedly won a National Championship for his otherwise woefully overmatched team as a freshman? The best center prospect in years? The next dominant bigman that showed skills as an anchor on both ends of the floor like no college center has since Tim Duncan?……… Just wanted to clear that up, because the way some of you were talking I thought we may be talking about someone else other than Greg Oden.
PS- Okafor is one of the best young Centers in the league in my opinion. And would be great there for the Bobcats with Sean May at PF…….. Have him play the center like Jermaine Oneal does or Tim Duncan does: over 60% of the time at center like they should be but the rest of the time at PF while they bring a banger in at the 5 so they can save their bodies from a little banging and stay healthy, and lets them do their thing in the high-post and pivot.
BILLY Said,
September 16, 2007 @ 6:59 pm
DAMN EDDIE!!!!!!!!! I FORGOT YOU WERE ON THAT HORNETS TEAM IN 93!!!!!!!
I HATE YOU FOR THAT, YOU GUYS GOT AT MY CELTS IN THE FIRST ROUND AND ALONZO HIT THAT DAMN GAMEWINER IN MCHALE’S BIG LAST GAME……. DAMN…… NOT TO MENTION WE HAD REGGIE LEWIS GO OFF FOR LIKE 15 POINTS IN THE FIRST 15 MINUTES BEFORE HIS TRAGIC COLLAPSE AND HE NEVER PLAYED AGAIN (LESS IMPORTANTLY- I THINK WE WOULDVE WON THAT SERIES IF THAT NEVER HAPPENED…. MORE IMPORTANTLY- REST IN PEACE REGGIE, A CELTIC LEGEND AND GREAT GUY GONE TOO SOON) AFTER THAT…. OH WELL, THATS MY RANT, CONGRATS ON MOVING ON WITH GRANDMAMA L.J. AND BIG ‘ZO (BIG ROOKIE ALONZO, HAHA) AND LIL MUGSY AND THEM….. THAT SERIES WAS AWESOME THOUGH!!!! GO CELTICS!!!!!
GO CELTICS!!!! RAY ALLEN, KEVIN GARNETT, AND PAUL PIERCE!!!! WILL THE SEASON START ALREADY???? GREEN 17, CELTIC PRIDE!
BILLY Said,
September 16, 2007 @ 7:18 pm
Rashidi the Pistons won more than 64 games in 06 and didnt win the championship, they lost to the heat in the east finals.
They won 66 games… So thats team number 5 and thats just off the top of my head.
john marzan Said,
September 16, 2007 @ 11:31 pm
i do recall eddie and X were traded for each other. McDaniels was a flop in Phoenix.
BILLY Said,
September 17, 2007 @ 12:09 am
“You need bigs playing in the low post to win… I don’t care if they call themselves PF or Centers these days. Mind you Timmy-D is a Center no matter where he is listed. ”
GEORGE I COULDNT HAVE SAID THAT BETTER MYSELF, GREAT GREAT GREAT WAY OF SAYING IT. DIRECT HIT. I AGREE 100%.
Its why the Bulls cant win a championship with what they got now, but if they had Eddy Curry they would have a legit shot. Its why the Pistons had NO CHANCE IN HELL but once they landed Rasheed they went on a tear and won the ring and were the best team in the NBA from the moment they got him thru their 37-5 start to the 05/06 season. Its the reason you take Oden over Durant, PERIOD…… HELL ITS EVEN WHY THE LAKERS ARE SO CRAZY ABOUT HOLDING ON TO BYNUM.
PF, CENTER, WHATEVER. YOU NEED THAT BIG DOWN LOW AND THAT LOWPOST DIMENSION AS PART OF YOUR TEAM TO WIN BIG IN THIS LEAGUE. YOU DONT GOT IT, NO CHANCE.
Hammond Said,
September 17, 2007 @ 12:32 pm
Billy– this is also the reason why Duncan is better than Garnett or Dirk. When Duncan posts up, the entire defense has to worry about him and make decisions based on his position in the paint– do I doubleteam? do I cover Bowen, who’s camping out at the 3 pt line? Do I double before he puts the ball on the floor, or wait to see if he makes a move? This keeps the defense constantly on edge and always on the verge of misreading the play and making a mistake. With Dirk, as good as he is, there is not this concern– you put your best defender on him, and that’s that. He might light you up for points, but he’s not going to enable the lesser players on his team to necessarily excel. If Bowen played for Dallas, there’s no way he’d shoot 40% from 3 pt land, but playing beside Duncan, he’s done it consistently for years. Look at Nash, too– with Dallas, he was a good point guard, but with Phoenix, he’s a great point guard. He’s got Amare and Marion moving around, creating havoc, forcing the defenders to make split second decisions. That doesn’t happen with Dirk. He’s great at what he does, but what he does is relatively static. This is why Duncan scoring 20-22 for the Spurs is so much more valuable to his team than Dirk scoring 26-30.
Rashidi Said,
September 17, 2007 @ 6:50 pm
It depends on the matchups. People forget the Mavs beat the Spurs only a year ago. The Spurs have nobody who can stick Dirk effectively, not even Bowen. Post guys you can still neutralize over the long haul with turnovers and missed free throws. Teams like the Suns, Warriors, or Jazz have big/athletic small forwards can match him, but he exploits slower, plodding players like the ones some people claim are needed to win. Those same SFs (essentially tweeners) stand no chance against Duncan, which make it a rock/paper/scissors game… with Dirk being one of the few papers in the game.
Eddy Curry turn the Bulls into contenders? More like pretenders. He will always be one of those guys who is better on paper than he is in reality, and he ain’t even that good on paper. He is basically Zach Randolph with no jumper, ball skills, or rebounding ability.
Rashidi Said,
September 17, 2007 @ 7:11 pm
Also, Dirk does have an impact on his teammates, though I don’t think it shows up in the stats as noticabely as it would for Dennis Scott, Bruce Bowen, Damon Jones, Mario Elie, etc (all basically the same catch and shoot off a double team player)
He forces opponents to play a smaller lineup. Smaller lineups are weaker in rebounding and shot blocking. The lane opens up for guys like Devin Harris and Josh Howard, even for a rebounder like Erick Dampier.
Obviously against a team that prefers to play ultra-small (Warriors Warriors Warriors), such an advantage is negated. If anything Golden State turned the tables on Dallas, they were even better going small and won the same way Dallas beat San Antonio the year before. They made Dampier useless the same way Dallas did it to Nesterovic, were faster at every position, and took advantage of Dallas’ diminished paint control with Dirk at C trying to stop Davis, Ellis, Richardson, and Jackson constantly getting to the basket, ala Harris, Terry, Howard, Dirk the year before vs the Spurs.
Hammond Said,
September 18, 2007 @ 12:12 am
“Dallas did it to Nesterovic”– Everybody did it to Nesterovic! The Mavs beat the Spurs when Duncan had a pretty serious case of plantar fascitis
Hammond Said,
September 18, 2007 @ 12:25 am
oops– accidentally pressed the “submit comment” button… anyway, as I was saying– plantar fasciitis– same thing that made Bosh much less effective in the playoffs against the Nets… and it still took Dallas 7 games and an overtime period to overcome. I want to repeat again– I’m not saying Dirk isn’t a fantastic player, but just pointing out why the guy everyone calls boring is better.
Yesterday, I talked with a guy who contends that Amare is better than Duncan, Marion is better than Ginobili, and Nash is better than Parker….also thinks Suns bench is better… my question, naturally: why doesn’t Phoenix routinely destroy a team they are so much better than? His answer: San Antonio is lucky.
Hammond Said,
September 18, 2007 @ 12:41 am
I agree with most of what you’re saying, but to say “post guys can be neutralized” is overstating it a bit. Duncan and Shaq, the two best post guys of the past decade, have 8 championships between them, Shaq with two different teams, and Duncan with what essentially amounts to two different teams. Dirk & Garnett are great talents, but i don’t think it’s chance that they will finish their careers with fewer rings than the two great classic post guys of this era.
space Said,
September 19, 2007 @ 8:20 am
neutralize? funny
the ‘winning’ bigsof the league always have a capable group of team & talent around them. garnett had none and dirk’s game needed to develop to where he is now. dirk only got the elite level status the last couple of years.
jacob-
kwame is just kwame. i don’t know what else to say about that. he was a boy coming into a man’s league and didn’t even know how to be a man yet. he’s inally getting more aggressive, but it seems he lost like 50 skills since his rookie years in DC. not sure what happened to him. he looked like he had aLOT of promise then.
jay-
the challenge of a league? count me in. just name the the wheres whens & what details. does ejohnson have one here already?
space Said,
September 19, 2007 @ 8:28 am
the true answer on the suns?
they just aren’t the better team yet [and bad stuff does happen to them but that's sports for you]. the suns players need to play their roles better and amare isn’t the same force. he’s still a beast but his game is different/evolving, and the fact that he seems much slimmer. you can’t really bang if you are not a banger.
oh yeah- and +plus, we refs are always ‘quite’ kind to the spurs.
love, your pal
Tim Donaghy [ok not really]
david Said,
September 19, 2007 @ 10:07 am
Hey Tim Space,
I didn’t see how kind the you guys were to the Spurs against Dallas a couple of years ago. Or against LA before that.
Hammond Said,
September 19, 2007 @ 10:22 am
Yeah– Joey Crawford has been very kind to the Spurs…
Hammond Said,
September 19, 2007 @ 10:31 am
Space– Duncan has never won fewer than 53 games in a full season, and that includes a year where Vinny Del Negro was a STARTER. Duncan won a title with Rasho Nesterovic as a starting center. Nesty left Minnesota (who actually offered him more $$$ than the Spurs) because he didn’t enjoy playing with Garnett. Garnett’s worst decision as a player was to gobble up salary space, making it impossible for the Timberwolves to put better guys around him. It was contracts like Garnett’s that made the salary cap necessary. He “got paid,” no doubt, but it was a case of short-term gain and long-term loss, career-wise.
david Said,
September 19, 2007 @ 10:56 am
Hammond,
are we the only 2 Spurs fans on this blog?
Hammond Said,
September 19, 2007 @ 1:40 pm
Yeah– isn’t it great?
david Said,
September 19, 2007 @ 1:55 pm
Don’t bother me. I met Mahimni on Saturday — hope he makes the squad this year. Nice kid.
Hammond Said,
September 19, 2007 @ 1:59 pm
I guess according to this latest article, it would’ve been ok if Horry had intentionally thrown an elbow at Nash or “popped him in the mouth”… that would be old school. It’s amazing that someone could look back at clotheslining as the “good old days!”
frank Said,
September 19, 2007 @ 8:48 pm
we all know nash’s background in soccer. that was as big a flop as i’ve ever seen. and i’m not a spurs fan. wanna see a real hit. google rambis and the celtics. now that was a clothesline.
frank Said,
September 19, 2007 @ 8:50 pm
and eddie’s right. you think if the spurs or anyone else in the league impored the “jordan rules” on lebron, that stern wouldn’t be crying bloody murder.
Hammond Said,
September 20, 2007 @ 12:38 am
Yeah– that was a pretty blatant shot by McHale on Rambis. People forget about it as time passes. I’m not a big advocate of the “good ol’days” theory, which I think is nothing more than fallacy and romanticising the past. Kermit Washington breaking a half dozen bones in Rudy T’s face wasn’t a good time for basketball. The idea that Artest going into the stands or Melo hitting Collins is somehow emblematic of a terrible era is just plain wrong. Ty Cobb went into the stands many times in his career, and that was low on the list of crazy things he did– fistfights with his own team-mates, chokings, stabbings, rabid racism… and where did it land him? In the Hall of Fame! Those were not the good ol days….
frank Said,
September 20, 2007 @ 1:11 am
what mchale did to rambis was nothing more than a brutal flagrant foul, or as they called it back then, a “playoff foul.” i will agree that the severity of it was a bit over the top, but in no way can it be compared to what ron ron did or what kermit washington did to rudy or melo’s bitch slap. it’s apples and oranges. one happened during a heated rivalry game during the nba championship, while the others were acts of violence committed by morons.
but since we’re on the subject, you forgot to mention the knicks/heat playoff game when van gundy was clinging on to the heels of alonzo mourning as he was swinging at former front court mate larry johnson. now that was funny.
david Said,
September 20, 2007 @ 9:14 am
Frank, Terry Cummings, who was on the Knick then, told me that he almost busted a rib laughing so hard. I think Van G was almost knocked unconscious after he hit someone’s leg.
space Said,
September 20, 2007 @ 9:18 am
ok— the donaghy thing was a joke.
maybe in poor taste but not even a commentary.
i am not an nba ref [just a fan and player thank you].
but you spurs fans are too touchy. for once i was naysaying the suns and how they aren’t as good yet. i didn’t even mention duncan.
Matt Said,
September 20, 2007 @ 12:57 pm
How do you think the nba will be affected by the recent referee controversy. Will certain teams get special treatment? Will certain players get special treatment? Just curious what NBA fans across the nation think about the fall out of the ref controversy…….
Spurs fans please not reply, thanks.
Jerry Colangelo's Dog, Rover Colangelo Said,
November 7, 2007 @ 6:10 pm
“There are no other teams in the conference that can beat the Suns in a seven-game series (sorry, Maverick fans).”
What’s there to be sorry about? The Mavericks don’t need 7 games. They’ve done it in 6, and since Phoenix don’t defend, Dirk can score 50 points in the process…and he had food poisoning at the time.
Oh yeah, the Mavericks can also beat San Antonio.
http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s33/cipher000/__1.jpg
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